[00:00:17] And we are back on Sleep Reimagined with Nairi Penn. Nairi, how are you? I am wonderful. Good to see you again. Yeah, likewise. And, you know, well-rested? That's my question for you? Absolutely. First and foremost. This is the core part of our show, right? So let's talk today's episode.

[00:00:42] Today we are going to talk about the mental health connection, especially with sleep's role in anxiety and depression. So let's just dive in. Ready? Yeah. All right. Cool. So Nairi, what was the moment in your career when you realized just how deeply sleep and mental health are actually connected?

[00:01:10] Man, I think what surprised me the most was that I kind of, you know, because I come from such a strong clinical background, I just kind of expected people to be like, hey, this is the problem. I can't sleep. This is what's wrong with me. Fix me. Right. And that was my plan. When I started, I was like, okay, I'm fixing a problem. You got REM sleep disorders. Come on in. And, you know, however, as I, you know, we started doing more and more and more and I understood like all these different,

[00:01:36] like I can actually see it visually on the EEG monitor. I can see PTSD, anxiety, depression, and how it affects the neurological aspects of your brain, essentially. So that's when it's like, oh my God, this has a way bigger implication of, oh, I can't sleep through the night or I'm tired. There's actually physical changes that occur when people don't get sleep and specifically REM sleep. Right. And I would see this a lot in my VA patients, you know, they're exposed to so much,

[00:02:05] like they always come to the top three. Insomnia, chronic sleep deprivation, you know, maybe some REM sleep disorders and, you know, and it was just the same over and over and over. What is going on? And so, but it makes sense, right? PTSD related hyper arousal situations that they may be in, you know, the international appointments, the chronic time changes, you know,

[00:02:27] just transitioning back to civilization or civilian light and then just transitioning for reservists back into the military. Like there's just so many extreme ups and downs in that particular group that really opened my eyes to me like, wow, this is, this is a really way more significant issue than just, oh, I can't sleep. So yeah, definitely in that, that population group.

[00:02:55] Yeah. And this was, so this was like when you first had your first VA patient that kind of confirmed it for you or? Yeah. You know, I, I try to really support the military, you know, my, my, my dad was in the military. So I'm really like close to helping that group because I can see, you know, the effects of lack of sleep with them, you know, and it's just one at, cause if one tells another, they can tell another, you know,

[00:03:23] tell it so gratefully so, you know, but they all were experiencing like these same type of sleep, footprints that I was saying. And it was in the same kind of, you know, subjective history, you know? So it's just, it's just amazing to physically be able to see that, you know? Yeah. And how about you on, on a personal level,

[00:03:49] have you personally felt the effects of sleep deprivation on your own mood, stress level? How, how, what's your experience with that? I laugh because I, I originally had started this business, not really fully understanding the implications of lack of sleep. Because I didn't have a problem sleeping, you know? And as I met more people and the desperation in their voice, I really, I understood it from a clinical perspective.

[00:04:16] But when I opened this business and I started, all the things would come with it, you know? And it's just this journey of having to do so much and, you know, just being an entrepreneur and being a business person and still being an employee and, you know, managing a household and just, just, just the addition of starting a business. Where else am I supposed to find time? My sleep, you know? Oh, I can, eight hours, I can do six hours. As long as I get four hours, I'm good.

[00:04:44] But next thing I know, four hours turned into once, twice, a week, a month. And then the physical, you know, science started, I was like, if I don't sleep, done, you know? I just, I cannot function if I do not sleep. And I need to understand that about myself. So that's what really, and I, you know, maybe that's what I needed to really now, I, you know, clinically understand it. I physically, emotionally, mentally, psychologically understand,

[00:05:13] understand what it means not to be able to sleep and specifically rest. I guess that's why sleep is so important, right? Like, like if you don't get enough, you are just going to be a different human being. It affects every aspect of your life, your wife's life, your kid's life, your co-worker's life, you know, everything. Which is why, which is why it gets really, obviously we are seeing more and more focus on sleep.

[00:05:40] There's a whole bunch of, you know, like even physicians just focusing on sleep now. There's so much, much, much many sleep clinics now. And there's all this coming, which is great. But it's still, I feel like it still doesn't get the kind of tension that it should get. It doesn't. And, you know, fortunately for prosomnia sleep, we focus on REM sleep, you know,

[00:06:08] and the understanding and the physiological and neurological implications of lack of sleep, specifically quality REM sleep and non-REM sleep. I don't want to negate the importance of non-REM sleep either. But we definitely focus on seeing the physical aspects and the changes that occur and dealing with the neurotransmitter aspect of balancing someone's rest.

[00:06:34] And let's talk about more on the aspect on the brain. So let's start with what's happening in the brain when we don't get enough sleep. What really, really is happening? Anything about that? Man, you know, that's that I think that might be a podcast in itself, but it's not the brain.

[00:06:58] And again, I say this from from the standpoint of neurological and the neural neurotransmitters that affect your brain. I mean, specifically, when we do prosomnia sleep sessions, we focus on relieving sleep pressure with the neurotransmitter adenosine. However, there's six other neurotransmitters that are involved in that show. So, you know, to say it's just adenosine or just GABA or just acetylcholine or just serotonin,

[00:07:25] like they're all so intricately intertwined. So when people come and say, I can't sleep or I can't rest, then we dig into the neurotransmitter aspect of it. So with mental health, it's usually the serotonins and the dopamine, right? However, those are very intricately involved with adenosine and GABA and acetylcholine. And so it's not like if my acetylcholine and my dopamine, my acetylcholine is high and my serotonin is low.

[00:07:55] Oh, that's why I can't sleep. Like, no, now we have to look at, you know, what's going on with your dopamine in the prefrontal area, which we can see, right? You know, what's going on in your hypothalamic region, which we can see. So that's why, you know, it's not just, oh, you have low dopamine and so that's why you're or you have high dopamine and that's why you're addictive and you have these addictive personalities or you're depressed.

[00:08:20] So let's get, you know, put you on some serotonin inhibitors, you know, to increase the serotonin for you and that'll help your mental health. They're just all so intricately involved. You can't just target one or the other. And I think that, you know, we live in it and, you know, naturally so we, it's definitely helps, but there's no one to really follow up and say, Hey, how does this affect your sleep? Like, okay, we really are, you know, we balanced out your melatonin.

[00:08:48] I mean, your serotonin levels, but, but why can't I sleep anymore? You know, so it's then, then why? Right. And so in defense of the medical professionals, like we don't really have an answer. Right. And that's what we definitely try to achieve at Presonite Sleep because somebody has to start, like we have to start looking at it from the neurotransmitter. We are on dopamine, serotonin overload and our addictive tendencies with the cell phones are only going to increase.

[00:09:17] Our addictive behaviors with the computers and moving and running and whatever it is. I mean, that's all dopamine, but there's such a thing as too much dopamine. And that's where we are. And that's where all these, I mean, as a society, we are an overload in general with all of this. It's just too much. And so what happens is our bodies compensate. They start downregulating. We can't keep on sending out all these signals. You know, you know, you got, you got to stop moving. You got to stop with the traffic, stop with job, stop, just stop and rest and breathe and sleep.

[00:09:47] Right. Okay. Forget our bodies. Our minds are resting. You know, it's like our phones are arms reach. That's our world. That's our life all over again in arms reach. We are on dopamine overload. So the mental health problems are going to continue and they're going to get worse. We're on serotonin overload. Our food sources are getting worse. You know, food is medicine. And that's another thing we strongly believe in in prosomnia sleep. Food is medicine. And that's how we treat our patients. We treat them with food. Food is medicine.

[00:10:17] We try to, you know, balance out their neurotransmitter levels just so they can sleep. Sleep affects every aspect of your body and your mind. And that's what we focus on, including mental health. So, I mean, you are obviously doing it, you know, for all the sleep patients. But let's talk about just like there is a whole branch of physicians who are dealing with patients, right?

[00:10:43] Like there's a neurologist and they're taking care of the brain health. And then there is primary care who just do want to do general wellness. But I never hear, I mean, they do ask in every visit, like you get sleep and everything, right? But I never hear or at least I don't know if it's happening. It's more of a question to you, like what you are seeing.

[00:11:09] Do you see more of the physicians, both sides, not just on the brain health side, but also primary care side, more kind of like doing assessment of sleep and then suggesting treatments even in that direction? Is it happening at all or is it not happening? Where are we at with this? You know, I can't speak as far as, you know, what's really out there, what people are trying to get to do? Like I'm trying to get people REM sleep, you know?

[00:11:39] So from that perspective, I'm sure, I'm sure my, my medical health professionals are trying and within their capability. Right. But they're running, you know, let's not even talk about insurance. They're running a practice. And as much as they may want to, if sleep is not their specialty, it's not their specialty, right? They are, I'm sure there's some that are willing to give medication, sleep aids, you know, but to take, this is all we do, sleep. We don't do sleep in babies. We don't do sleep in butts, feet, toes, stomach.

[00:12:09] We do sleep, period. Specifically sleeping of the mind, REM sleep. So that's when, when that's all we have to focus on, that's all we're going to focus on. We don't, we don't prescribe medication because to us that inhibits a lot of REM sleep. So that's why we look to treat sleep in natural ways. I can't speak on what other practitioners are doing. I can speak on what I'm sure they're trying to do within their capability.

[00:12:39] Okay. And honestly, I know you do this a lot. A lot of medical professionals aren't trained in the area of sleep. You know, there's pulmonologists and there's, you know, mental health professionals and psychiatrists and sleep doctors from a respiratory perspective. But sleep from a neurological perspective, there's a few of us out there, but specifically REM sleep. I do believe this is only just us, Prisomni sleep. And two questions to that.

[00:13:08] So one is, of course, the insurance system of currently, does it really support, you know, like all sleep related, you know, treatments that you're seeing in, especially in Prisomni and your own clinic? Like, do you see that are they or at least there is an effort to cover all those through insurances or it's still too early? It's most of it is out of pocket right now. And the second thing is collaborations from, let's say, mental health professionals with

[00:13:38] specialists like you on the sleep side. So is this even happening or is it just about to start? Where are we with these two things? Can you talk about both of them? Yeah. From an insurance standpoint, no, absolutely not. There's, you know, it's almost like sleep industry is a dying industry. Right now, the only way. I'm so sorry. Right now, usually the most ways and most sleep, you know, industries and organizations, companies, the only way they can usually make money is with the sleep apnea devices. A product.

[00:14:08] A product. Sleep as a service comes with the product. And, but just identifying the root cause of sleep, not the symptoms, not prescribing a prescription or recommending a particular hormone. It's the root cause, which is REM sleep and therapy. Cognitive behavioral therapists, just look at the amount of them there. It is so hard for me to find it. Put this out there.

[00:14:35] In South Florida, it is so hard for me to find a cognitive behavioral therapist for insomnia. You know, it's, they usually take on other specialties, but that's, it's just one of those industries. I feel that we are going to have to revolutionize. And that's what we're ready to do. And that's what we're about to do. Because sleep is only looked at from the perspective of obstructive sleep apnea as a product because that's a billable service. And maybe an overnight sleep test.

[00:15:05] And then what? A machine. So, you see what I'm saying? So a lot of, few symptoms and few symptom related solutions, but nothing gets to the root cause like for some of the sleep health and wellness does. And again, this is all we do. We're not opposed to sleep apnea devices and sleep apnea machines, but not as the only source to treat people. And now again, we're treating symptoms. Why aren't you sleeping? Why?

[00:15:33] Because you're on dopamine overload or because you have addictive personalities or because you're a gambler or like, you know, because you lost your husband or because you're going through real life issues or because you have children. Right? Right? How do you go to the doctor? I have kids. I can't sleep. Okay. Here's some prescription for something. No, that's okay. But still, I got to do this for 18 years. Yeah. It's cool. No. So it's two parts. Yes. There's very few options available.

[00:16:03] A billable service for insurance companies in the sleep health and wellness industry. Um, there is plenty of opportunities to have other billable services, including personal sleep therapy. Um, and as far as what's your, your secondary question was like, what's like what's available and what people can do in general or like practitioners specifically, um, can do, you know, and I don't know.

[00:16:31] I don't, I don't personally feel like it's, it's an area that we're, we're taught a lot about in medical school. So again, we're, we're a unicorn over here and, and, and rightfully so. I'm so grateful to say that I know we've helped a lot of patients and I'm, I'm, I'm really excited to see, you know, the future of where personal sleep health and anesthesia induced REM sleep therapy can go.

[00:16:58] So, and, um, there's a, I don't know, uh, I guess this is the clarification everyone wants to seek. And I get this question a lot too, like, uh, is, uh, can lack of sleep actually cause mental health disorders, like completely new one or, or does it just make the existing conditions worse or, or, or both? Like what's, what's the, absolutely both.

[00:17:26] And like I was saying before, we can see it. I can see PTSD on the, on, on our, um, from a numerical standpoint, you know, I can, I can see trauma. I can see depression. I can see REM sleep disorders. I can see REM sleep deprivation, um, chronic insomnia. Like these are, these are real mental health issues. And from a neurotransmitter, um, perspective, uh, serotonin and dopamine specifically when it comes to mental health, you know, those two things.

[00:17:56] I know, and that's where a lot of the pharmaceutical industries target, you know, because, but again, these, these two systems are so intricately related. I, I can't just treat the serotonin without treating the dopamine and the acetylcholine and, you know, in, in the melatonin and the adenosine and, you know, they're all related. Because so, you know, when we focus on releasing adenosine sleep pressure, it was like, oh wait, now dopamine levels have increased. Now serotonin levels have increased.

[00:18:25] Now acetylcholine levels have decreased. Right. And so, and adrenaline levels have decreased. Now we've got to look at all that as a whole. You know, it's not like I can go, oh, let me just look at, you know, dopamine. Let me just look at serotonin. No, you've got to look at the whole thing. And so, of course, it affects mental health. And even if you didn't have a mental health problem before, like something as simple as taking like, well, I don't want to say specifically, but, but certain serotonin inhibitor drugs. Right.

[00:18:55] If they inhibit your serotonin, then naturally, if you start experiencing depressive behaviors. Okay. And then, of course, you go to your GI doctor and you're like, oh, you know, I think I'm not as nauseous and throwing up anymore, but now I'm super depressed. Okay. Here's a prescription for full and avoidance. And so saying, hey, who stops and looks at your serotonin levels? And how do you test for that? Who? Right. Until you're dead, you really can't.

[00:19:22] I mean, you know, and it's all subjective, like, but it doesn't matter. I don't care if I need this level of serotonin, you need this level. Well, if you're happy up here and I'm happy here, then that's what it is. But who's looking at that? Right. So hopefully, again, for Somnus Sleep Health and Wellness, this is why we want to bring this to the world, bring this to the industry to let them know we are looking at that. We are looking at neurotransmitter. And we are looking at how food affects those, you know, other secondary medications that some people wouldn't even think that, you know, Benadryl.

[00:19:51] Of course, everybody takes Benadryl to go to sleep. People don't understand how it affects your serotonin and dopamine levels in your brain. Right. Right. So this is, again, another reason why we're not huge advocates of secondary medications. Food is medicine. And that's really all you need. Get granted. We use medication to put people into REM sleep temporarily. One and done. Right. And now we'll look at the other issues because knowledge that once things even out, the issue is still there.

[00:20:19] I think your question was actually, are there physical changes that occur? Absolutely. Because that's the whole purpose. That's neuroplasticity. That's how you learn. That's how you remember. That's how you grow. So you have to get your mind in the habit of stable neurotransmitter levels, serotonin, dopamine, you know, the mental health ones. And all of them, actually, because we want to stabilize your adenosine sleep pressure. Right.

[00:20:44] And that's how the lifestyle changes and the food, the nutritional changes to come about. So what's the role of REM sleep specifically in emotional processing and mental well-being? So specifically, again, adenosine, serotonin, dopamine, they're all related. When you're not sleeping, okay, you have a buildup of adenosine sleep pressure.

[00:21:11] If you're not relieving, the only time your mind can relieve that full adenosine intake is during REM sleep. The only time your mind can recharge, rejuvenate, rebalance, remember, is during REM sleep. If you're not getting REM sleep, there's other benefits in non-REM sleep. I don't want to minimize the importance of that again. Again, serotonin is big in the non-REM sleep space. In REM sleep, dopamine is big.

[00:21:40] So if you're not releasing that adenosine sleep pressure, you're not releasing dopamine. And so when you get that, you feel good when you wake up, right? Everybody goes to sleep. Oh, my God. How did you feel? I had a great night's sleep. And they sleep with a smile and their eyes are open and eyes are wide. You're so excited that you got REM sleep, right? You're motivated. You're happy. You do things because you got real REM sleep. Your dopamine levels have evened out.

[00:22:10] Your serotonin levels, usually that's that groggy. If you don't get that non-REM sleep, your serotonin levels are low. That's your mood, your emotions, your quality, your quantity of sleep, right? That's when everything balances out. But interesting enough, serotonin and dopamine are strongly related. So that means so are adenosine and dopamine. So it's not a one. I can't just fix the serotonin without fixing the dopamine. I can't just fix the dopamine without the serotonin, right? They're all related.

[00:22:39] And that's what we all need to understand. You know, you can't just be on an SSRI and think that, okay, my serotonin levels are balanced out. Now I should feel better. You know, what you've done is you've built a tolerance. So you've got to get to your root problem, which we believe is balancing out the neurotransmitters. Very interesting.

[00:23:00] So at prosomnia sleep therapies that you do, are you making sure like the full spectrum is covered or is it like certain areas that you don't go into? Can you talk about that a little bit? Sure. Unless you're dead, there's really no way to measure your serotonin levels. I'm guaranteed. Yes. We can measure, we can say there's a qualitative change in your blood serum uric acid levels.

[00:23:31] And that's representative of serotonin levels. I'm sorry. Oh my God. Delete all of that. We can measure blood uric acid levels, which is a qualitative just change in your adenosine levels. So we believe that if we, when we do your REM sleep sessions, you know, we'll, we'll measure your uric acid levels and then, which are pretty low. And then if we've released that adenosine sleep pressure after your sleep pressure, we take

[00:24:00] another blood uric acid sample again, and it should be in which they, um, and just to explain, um, adenosine can't cross the blood brain barrier. It will, uh, transform, break down and ultimately show up as uric acid in the blood. And so that's why we can measure uric acid levels in the blood. It does, it is like released in other areas, like your cerebral spinal fluid and your urine, but definitely not doing that. You know, so, um, and that's one measure. I don't mean serotonin.

[00:24:30] Those are others. Again, you know, acetyl, acetylcholine, adrenaline, all those other important neurotransmitters. It's really, really difficult to measure those. And they're very, very short acting. You know, I mean, they'll change in eight seconds. Adenosine is, is, you know, live or active in the blood for only eight seconds. So, you know, so it's just one of those things where it's like, we can show a qualitative change, but that's, that's, that's great. I mean, quantitative change, but that's pretty much it. But I mean, it's objective. Do you feel better or not?

[00:25:00] Yeah. Yeah. I think that's where it, uh, it should go, right? Like what's, how are you feeling at the end? Yeah. Are you going to, and there's, um, and I want, I want to minimize, there's all kinds of tests and scores and, you know, ways to validate, you know, if you have this and you feel like this, there's tons of them out there. Yes. Yes. Um, but at the end of the day, it's, how do you feel? That's what your doctor asks you. How do you feel? I don't know. I'm sad. I'm depressed. I'm not motivated. I don't feel like doing anything anymore. What's going on. Tell me what's going on.

[00:25:28] And then it's just kind of this, you know, trail of, um, but you know, again, I'm, again, sleep affects every aspect of your body. REM sleep specifically. And if we're treating your REM sleep, just naturally, we should be treating all the other treating or fairly balancing out those that are affected by sleep and REM, non-REM and REM sleep. So, I mean, you touched briefly here.

[00:25:56] What role do dopamine and serotonin play in mental health and sleep cycle together? How, how that works? So, okay. Well, okay. Let me, let me back a little bit and kind of explain like what each one of them does. So each one of them, it shows up in different places in your body. Um, so dopamine is, it shows up in your, uh, kidneys and, uh, a little bit in your brain. Okay. But it can't, it can't cross the blood brain barrier.

[00:26:22] So it has to be made in your blood, broken down, transferred into L-DOPA in your brain. And that's what gives like, um, your motivation. It's more of like the acting drugs. Like I want to go out there. I wouldn't do, I want to work out. Right. Um, that's when your dopamine levels are high, but I shouldn't say high or low, just balance. Right. Cause there are different levels for everybody. It's again, based on how you feel. I feel depressed. I feel low. I don't want to do anything. It's more of that thing one. Okay. And that one, that just lets you know you're not, you're not motivated.

[00:26:51] You don't want to do anything, but because it plays, it shares the same pathway of serotonin and adenosine. Um, that's how it affects your sleep. Okay. And your mental health. So if you're not feeling well, you're sad, you're depressed, then we'd have to take it. And then it's, I can't sleep. Right. And so those are probably the questions. Everybody comes to me because they can't sleep. My next is why. Oh, I don't know. I'm sad. I'm depressed. I don't feel like doing anything. Okay. There you go.

[00:27:20] That's when we start taking a look at dopamine. Um, and that's your, let's go do stuff. That's your motivating thing. When it's too high, that's where the addictive personality is coming from. Um, and that's, you know, people who are like, they're all about something. You know, we all have, we all have an addiction of some sort, but you see this a lot with people who, who live these up and down stock traders, these up and down lies, right? Um, sports is definitely necessary in sports to an extent.

[00:27:47] But you know, to an extent, again, if you, if it's too high for too long, your body will down regulate. Um, some of the drugs, a target dopamine, cocaine, um, the illicit drugs, the ecstasies, all those, those target dopamine specifically. That's why when, when people are, they're up, they're up, they're awake, they're excited, they're ready to go, they're reduced up. That's that drug. That's the dopamine drug. And then it's fine, but there's only so much the mind can tolerate. Right. So it's like, okay, so that's fine.

[00:28:16] What it's going to do is going to start down, right? Regulating those receptors. So even if you have all this dopamine in your system, your body's not going to be able to use it like it's supposed to. And it's just a natural feedback system that happens because it's just too much on a regular basis. In addition to our addictive personalities with our cell phones, it's too much on a regular basis. So it's going to down regulate that dopamine. And so then it's like, I missed my phone. Oh my God, it's been five minutes. Where's my phone? Oh my God.

[00:28:46] Oh my God. I'm bad because the levels start decreasing. So, so you know that you're going to need more and more and more. And that's why you built a tolerance. That's why you can be in a whole place with a hundred people and be on your phone. And you won't even notice. You are so laser focused that dopamine is so high that you just, and it's, and this is what causes you not to be able to sleep. And because it affects, they're all interrelated, right? Serotonin, same thing.

[00:29:15] Serotonin is more illicit. It's spread out all through your body. Pretty much. I think it's the second most highly populated neurotransmitter. But that's, that's pretty prevalent all through your system, all through your, your mind. However, the issue with serotonin is that you do need it in other places. It's not just, you know, your mind, but that is the one thing that is converted into melatonin.

[00:29:45] So our endogenous serotonin is converted into melatonin and that's what keeps us to sleep at night. And that's where, um, chronic insomnia, I can't stay asleep at night. So now I have to start looking at your serotonin levels. Why? Because your body has, you've depleted your body of the serotonin and the same thing is downregulated. So you don't even have enough to keep your sleep throughout the night. So that's when we start looking at that. And again, it's interrelated with your sleep and dopamine and adenosine.

[00:30:15] The relief of adenosine sleep pressure, um, is what we do. And so naturally when we put people to sleep, they do wake up with this euphoric feeling ready to go do things. I want to go shopping. I want to go run. I want to go do this. And that's expected. Um, because, and, and that's to me, another sign that we have relieved that adenosine sleep pressure because adenosine and dopamine go together too. So yeah, I'm telling you, it's, it's all a network, right? And it's not a one or done.

[00:30:41] It all affects your mental health, but we have to figure out the neurotransmitters that balance that out. What get, what makes us happy? What's our happy job? You can't have too much serotonin. It has side effects, but you never had too much happy and then serotonin, right? But when you don't have it, that's when people get depressed and that's what we have to start looking at. So what is, uh, uh, you know, sleep specialist Nairie's take on the melatonin.

[00:31:08] Those are people, you know, when I go in the stores, I see them. Is it good for, to just take it just like that without the overall full treatment or it's not good. I mean, I've heard all both parties as a, as a patient's facing side. And also I'm very skeptical when I see kids melatonin because I'm like, yes. So what's your take? Um, they serve a purpose, right? I will say that each one serves a purpose.

[00:31:37] I do not recommend them for long-term use now, but you know, even like you said, with kids and melatonin, there's a lot of school shootings around here. We ran out of melatonin. I'm in Parkland, Florida. You know, it serves its purpose. So if that's on a short-term basis until we can get the therapy we need, you know, regulate things, let's look at the neurology behind what was the current state before and after, you know, what is the lifestyle situation? There's so many other factors.

[00:32:07] And of course, you know, is it hopefully a temporary situation that we can seek, but not, you know, you can't put people on long-term prescriptions for root issues, real problems. You know, so all, all you're doing is just covering up the symptoms at some point we have, you can take melatonin and go to sleep until you can get up and go to therapy tomorrow. So, but you know, to take, oh, I mean, I've been on melatonin because what's going to happen? You're going to build up a tolerance.

[00:32:34] You know, I went from five to 10 to 20 and we can take the whole bottle just to go to sleep for one night. No, that's as long as the root problem is, is being taken into account as well. You know, those temporary aids are fine. Temporary is the key word. So it's really a temporary relief, not a solution. That's what you say. Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely.

[00:32:59] Now, for those who feel, you know, stuck in this loop of poor sleep and poor mental health, what's like the first step you recommend to them for breaking free of the cycle, this vicious circle? Um, you know, it's, it's not, I feel this is okay. First and foremost, they need to come to prosomni sleep health and wellness.

[00:33:26] Um, so we can really find out what's going on because it's not, it's not just a one thing. I cannot, and I will not just give you a prescription. I will not just send, bring you in for a prosomni sleep session. When you come in for the prosomni sleep session is to get you rest. So we can navigate through this problem and get you on a natural sleep schedule, right? That's to get your REM sleep that you haven't gotten in months, potentially years, right?

[00:33:52] So we get you the rest, but then we also stay with you to go through that therapy with you. Why aren't you sleeping? Why can't you stay asleep throughout the night? Is it because you have low serotonin levels? We've got to get to the root problem. And that's what we do. So when you're dealing with mental health issues, okay, fine. I can write your prescription again, but we also have to get the psychiatrist on board because now we have to look at how your antidepressant medication is affecting your sleep.

[00:34:21] Um, and so we have to do some medication management. People don't understand how much your gastrointestinal issues play into your sleep. So now we got to get your GI doctor on board and now we become your sleep team, right? Your, your dream team, um, of professionals to help you get rest because it's almost like your GI doctor doesn't know that your antidepressants are causing you not to sleep. So we're all countering each other and you're not getting better. Sleep affects every aspect of your life.

[00:34:50] Even when you eat, sleep, uh, dream, play, work, everything. So if we can figure out why you're not sleeping, we should relatively be able to solve quite a few problems you're having. And so, you know, ideally that's how, you know, the issue is, let's look at your sleep. Let's figure out what your mental health issues are, or let's come, come, let's figure out what your mental health issues are that are affecting your sleep because they're, they're both.

[00:35:19] I promise you, if there's a mental health issues going on, you are not sleeping. And, um, I know there is like, uh, a sleep testing device and then there's sleep tests that happens, but it seems like because the problem is, could be like, you know, how we're discussing the mental health and there is a whole bunch of things happens.

[00:35:40] Um, is there some sort of, uh, quiz or I don't know, scoring people can take it at home and then they know, and then they can reach out to you. Is there something that we can give to our listeners? Is there something, is there something we can hand over and attach to people with, uh, whenever they are listening to the show so they can kind of like do a self evaluation a little bit and then figure it out.

[00:36:07] And, you know, maybe when then, uh, uh, you know, like reach out to you and schedule time with you for deeper understanding of the results. Is there something like that? Absolutely. Go to www.prosomniasleep.com. P-R-O-S-O-M-N-I-A.sleep.com. Okay. Actually, we, so we have our prosomnias sleep quiz there and, um, each question kind of

[00:36:32] targets us into, um, a different potential sleep disparity that you may have. So they're not just general basic questions. This is a very specific, um, sleep quiz that's designed, um, by our team to, to identify certain sleep disparities, um, including REM sleep disorders. So yes, the website is the, our sleep prosomnias sleep quiz. This, uh, we will obviously put the link directly if you are listening.

[00:36:59] And if you want to see really like what your sleep troubles are, you should take this quiz and then hopefully also reach out to Nairi from the website to schedule your, uh, deeper assessment on that. Absolutely. And we do have like, you know, I, I know this is a brief podcast, but on Amazon, I do have my book, why we don't sleep. And it gets into actually the physiological and biological aspects as to why we don't sleep. It's on Amazon.

[00:37:27] Um, and, um, like I said, it's a biological secrets behind insomnia. I do delve into more with the neurotransmitters, different, you know, the REM sleep disorders, chronic insomnia, menopause, manopause, you know, how all those come into play. We have silver sleepers, you know, it's a lot of people, they get older, they lose the ability to sleep. How sleep plays into mental health, you know, is like in chapter five. So, you know, I delve into deeper, um, and explain why and what's going on in your head

[00:37:56] as to why you can't sleep. And we will put the link to the book as well, uh, to Amazon directly. And you, you are able to get it directly from that link. Um, now, before we conclude today's show, uh, two last questions. The first one, what excites you most about the future of sleep research? It's, uh, its role in, especially in mental health treatment. Talk to us about that. Um, us for Somni Sleep Health and Wellness.

[00:38:25] We are revolutionizing the sleep and health and wellness industry. Um, we are the first and only clinical sleep REM sleep therapy. And I'm so happy and so proud to say that we can, we can now treat the real root causes and root problems of REM sleep. However, we will then also guide people and help them with chronic insomnia and the other sleep issues by dealing with the different neurotransmitters and how those imbalances affect.

[00:38:53] And I think what's also excited me, um, so much like we were speaking before, knowing that I can see the mental health, um, problems or sleep disparities from a data perspective, we can also pair that information, pair that data with the AI information, you know, the sleep watches and all this other, you know, because that's actually what's happening now. All this AI driven data on, and all this insights and that's fine. But what are people supposed to do with it? Right.

[00:39:23] So it's like, okay, I literally just had a guy call me the other day. He's like, all right, my watch says I'm not getting REM sleep. Right. I'm like, okay, how do you feel? And he's like, well, you know, sleep me. I said, but are you regular sleepy or are you like really, really sleepy? And he's like, and so we, you know, we went down that road and so it's, it's great, you know, to bring this type of attention. Um, however, we just have to let people know now what to do because it's also in some patients causing a little bit of anxiety, whereas you're already not sleeping.

[00:39:52] And then your watch is telling you you're not sleeping, but nobody's telling you how to sleep. You know, so that, you know, that can, that can kind of be, you know, a little difficult too. So that's what we do here. Again, we only choose sleep at Prisomni Sleep Health and Wellness. You know, whether people, it's not just REM sleep. We do deal and we, non-REM sleep is absolutely important. You know, I'm not negating the importance of non-REM sleep, but because we are a comprehensive

[00:40:18] sleep center, we just, we deal with every aspect of sleep and that's all we do. Wonderful. Um, I know that you are going to be speaking somewhere on your favorite topic with sleep. Can you talk to us about what that event is about? What are you going to talk about? And if people want to find you, listeners want to find you about that thing, what is that?

[00:40:48] Talk to us about that. So, um, it's through, through, um, the Philadelphia sleep conference is March 28th. Yes. March 28th in at live casino in Philadelphia. And I'm talking to a specific topic on, um, the, the dynamic duo of anesthesia and EEG. So essentially I will be speaking to everyone about what I'm seeing when in Prisomni Sleep sessions, right?

[00:41:15] When people are asleep, we use an EEG monitor and, um, what I'm seeing on our monitors. And when I say, oh, oh, this is what PTSD looks like, or this is what depression looks like, or, you know, this is what chronic insomnia looks like. And I'm explaining how we use that monitor and how I'm using that device to, you know, then kind of, Hey, then we kind of develop personalized sleep plan, which may involve neurologists,

[00:41:40] behavioral therapists, your, your GI doctor and build your sleep team of professionals. Um, so we, and then I'll be speaking on how I, how I use that data to, um, identify REM sleep disorders and potentially other neurological disorders. Yeah. Wonderful. And is, uh, can people, is, is this just in person or is it also? So it's in person and they have a virtual link as well. Um, it's, uh, Philly sleep, sleep conference.com.

[00:42:10] And, uh, it'll bring you to the website. You can sign up. Uh, I also, it's the lecture does give CME credits, um, uh, medical education credits, uh, for people in the industry who need, um, you know, medical education credits. So, yeah, I'm excited and anyone's welcome to come. I'll be there as well. Prior to that, I'm going to be doing a book signing. Um, again, why, as why we don't sleep, um, that, that, uh, couple of hours before, forgive me. I'm so sorry.

[00:42:39] That Thursday before, um, because the conference is on Friday, the Thursday before I will be doing like a mini, um, book signing for the book and speaking to anyone who wants to know more about sleep, prosontity sleep and everything we do over there. And that is going to be at the same location. I mean, at the live casino as well. Yeah. All right. Well, you know, our listeners, especially in people in and around Philadelphia, how to find where it is.

[00:43:05] We will put the detail link to the conference as well with the show notes and wherever you get it. Um, and yeah, and this brings us to the end of today's episode. Nairi, once again, thanks for sharing all the insights. We'll be back with our next episode pretty soon. We already have it on our calendar. Uh, so, so get ready folks. Uh, and if you are in Philadelphia, you know how to get to Nairi and we will put it the link

[00:43:35] to the location and the conference, uh, her book, we'll put the link why we don't sleep on Amazon. We will put the link that too. And also if you are in Florida, in and around Florida and you can find her at Prostarly Sleep Clinic with also the link. So many ways to find this lady right now and you got the opportunity to fix your sleep. Do it. All right. All right. Thank you.

[00:44:05] Nairi, once again, I appreciate you. Thanks for your time. Thank you. Bye.